Comments on: Abelard and Heloise http://www.spinozablue.com/2008/06/139/ An Eclectic Journal of the Arts Sun, 29 Jan 2012 22:24:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Cuchulain http://www.spinozablue.com/2008/06/139/#comment-73 Cuchulain Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:24:54 +0000 http://www.spinozablue.com/?p=139#comment-73 It <em>is </em>amazing to think about the obstacles in Abelard's path. Speaking out about certain things could actually get you killed. The courage it took to do so anyway. <br /><br />It's difficult for us to put ourselves in his shoes. Or in Heloise's, who had her own set of dangerous constraints. <br /><br /><br /><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('73','Cuchulain'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('73','Cuchulain','It <em>is <\/em>amazing to think about the obstacles in Abelard\'s path. Speaking out about certain things could actually get you killed. The courage it took to do so anyway. <br \/><br \/>It\'s difficult for us to put ourselves in his shoes. Or in Heloise\'s, who had her own set of dangerous constraints. <br \/><br \/><br \/>'); return false;">Quote</a></div> It is amazing to think about the obstacles in Abelard’s path. Speaking out about certain things could actually get you killed. The courage it took to do so anyway.

It’s difficult for us to put ourselves in his shoes. Or in Heloise’s, who had her own set of dangerous constraints.

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]]> By: Cuchulain http://www.spinozablue.com/2008/06/139/#comment-72 Cuchulain Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:08:47 +0000 http://www.spinozablue.com/?p=139#comment-72 Tony, thanks. <br /><br />Yes, all blogging under the cybernym of cuchulain is by me. Doug. <br /><br />You add a great deal of important context. Do you have any suggestions for further reading? Tragic and fascinating times. Tragic and fascinating story within those times. <br /><br />thanks, again--<br /><br /><br />. . . Doug<br /><div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('72','Cuchulain'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('72','Cuchulain','Tony, thanks. <br \/><br \/>Yes, all blogging under the cybernym of cuchulain is by me. Doug. <br \/><br \/>You add a great deal of important context. Do you have any suggestions for further reading? Tragic and fascinating times. Tragic and fascinating story within those times. <br \/><br \/>thanks, again--<br \/><br \/><br \/>. . . Doug<br \/>'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Tony, thanks.

Yes, all blogging under the cybernym of cuchulain is by me. Doug.

You add a great deal of important context. Do you have any suggestions for further reading? Tragic and fascinating times. Tragic and fascinating story within those times.

thanks, again–

… Doug

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]]> By: Tony Jones http://www.spinozablue.com/2008/06/139/#comment-71 Tony Jones Sun, 22 Jun 2008 08:22:58 +0000 http://www.spinozablue.com/?p=139#comment-71 Doug (or whom it may concern if you didn't write this one:)),I enjoy the article a great deal. The romance of Abelard and Heloise is one of my favorite (true)stories in the Occidental legendarium. You ask why Abelard fought against his love for her. Obviously it's very difficult and indeed presumptuous to pretend to understand another's motivation. (And I don't, really.) But one thing not mentioned in the article is the fact that Abelard was battling a theological consensus which was also an authoritarian consensus. The magisterium weighed in heavily against him. So it was not simply a story of star-crossed lovers who could not get over their love for one another, but they stood in an ambivalent relationship to the entire authority/social matrix they lived in. Abelard, among other things, was an individual philosophical and theological virtuoso in an era when virtuosity was more problematic than it has since become. Heloise would have been considered to be the property of her family at that sad juncture in European history, and not a moral agent at all. A completely passive receptacle of honor or dishonor. So everything they were in their relationship shrieked defiance at the establishment. I'm certain that was no easier a burden to bear then than it is now, probably much more so. Just thoughts, but thanks again for a thought provoking and impassioned article...Tony<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('71','Tony Jones'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('71','Tony Jones','Doug (or whom it may concern if you didn\'t write this one:)),I enjoy the article a great deal. The romance of Abelard and Heloise is one of my favorite (true)stories in the Occidental legendarium. You ask why Abelard fought against his love for her. Obviously it\'s very difficult and indeed presumptuous to pretend to understand another\'s motivation. (And I don\'t, really.) But one thing not mentioned in the article is the fact that Abelard was battling a theological consensus which was also an authoritarian consensus. The magisterium weighed in heavily against him. So it was not simply a story of star-crossed lovers who could not get over their love for one another, but they stood in an ambivalent relationship to the entire authority\/social matrix they lived in. Abelard, among other things, was an individual philosophical and theological virtuoso in an era when virtuosity was more problematic than it has since become. Heloise would have been considered to be the property of her family at that sad juncture in European history, and not a moral agent at all. A completely passive receptacle of honor or dishonor. So everything they were in their relationship shrieked defiance at the establishment. I\'m certain that was no easier a burden to bear then than it is now, probably much more so. Just thoughts, but thanks again for a thought provoking and impassioned article...Tony'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Doug (or whom it may concern if you didn’t write this one:)),I enjoy the article a great deal. The romance of Abelard and Heloise is one of my favorite (true)stories in the Occidental legendarium. You ask why Abelard fought against his love for her. Obviously it’s very difficult and indeed presumptuous to pretend to understand another’s motivation. (And I don’t, really.) But one thing not mentioned in the article is the fact that Abelard was battling a theological consensus which was also an authoritarian consensus. The magisterium weighed in heavily against him. So it was not simply a story of star-crossed lovers who could not get over their love for one another, but they stood in an ambivalent relationship to the entire authority/social matrix they lived in. Abelard, among other things, was an individual philosophical and theological virtuoso in an era when virtuosity was more problematic than it has since become. Heloise would have been considered to be the property of her family at that sad juncture in European history, and not a moral agent at all. A completely passive receptacle of honor or dishonor. So everything they were in their relationship shrieked defiance at the establishment. I’m certain that was no easier a burden to bear then than it is now, probably much more so. Just thoughts, but thanks again for a thought provoking and impassioned article…Tony
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